Norman Mailer: Works and Days

The Spoken Word: Good Talkers

Michael Swain's report in The Listener on Mailer's conversation with the British writer Colin MacInnes on a BBC program — religion, existentialism, and the war between God and the Devil. Mailer said it would at times be preferable for the Devil to win a battle than for there to be no decision; and that 'Churches are not religious. They are now for social religions . . . A mass media for propaganda.' The transcript of the program, which Lennon calls 'a revealing document,' runs to 23 pages.

“The Spoken Word: Good Talkers.” Article by Michael Swain. Listener, 23 November 1961.

Comment on Mailer’s conversation with the British writer Colin MacInnes about religion and existentialism, among other things, on a BBC program. Mailer said that in the war between God and the Devil, at times it would be preferable for the Devil to win a battle rather than there be no decision. He also said, “Churches are not religious. They are now for social religions … A mass media for propaganda.” The transcript for the program, which Lennon calls “a revealing document,” runs to twenty-three pages.

First published: 1961-11-23
Form: article
Lennon & Lennon: 61.21a
Cite as: /works/1961-11-23-spoken-word-good-talkers
Last updated: 2026-05-26